Immigrants, trans, Ukrainians, women… these groups are a sacrifice white male leftists are willing to make.
I’ve been told leftists never vote and arent worth representing. So are we super important or not?
“I’ve been told this [obviously made up strawman]. So which is it, the [obviously made up strawman] or the other thing?”
Hmm, difficult choice there, buddy.
Also you guys are fucking idiots.
“If you don’t pick a better candidate then I’ll just let the one who wants concentration camps and to erase all of Palestine win”
Like, seriously, look at the big picture. Do you think Kamala who would have still supported Israel would have been worse for Gaza? It’s literally not possible. You guys fucked up the entire planet in your pride.
Now I’m not saying the DNC isn’t wrong, they’re fucking morons. But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.
I cannot express how much I fucking hate people like you right now.
Go ahead and downvote me. “But it’s not right”. Yeah? We’ll choosing to let this happen is leagues worse. You guaranteed the genecide in Gaza would be the worst it ever could be you fucking morons.
Go out and pressure the DNC to not be shit, but don’t fucking say there’s no difference between Kamala and Trump.
i’m glad i’m not the only one shitting on 3rd party/abstainers every chance i get. high and mighty morality police, usually saying shit like “kamala was always going to lose” while simultaneously trying to push the 100% guaranteed fail action of 3rd party or sitting out.
whether they’re actually russian propaganda trolls or not hardly matters–they’re shit human beings either way
Agreed. But I’m not going to publicly endorse a dead-end DNC loser before it’s necessary. The DNC needs to act like people aren’t required to vote for them and field a candidate that can actually win votes.
That’s valid! More than valid it’s necessary. Show resistance against weak DNC libs AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, but possible ends when it’s time to vote. Then always choose the option that is best or, if necessary least damaging.
If you don’t vote against the biggest fascist, you are helping fascism along.
WRONG!
You hype the Dems in public every chance you get.
The GOP once elected a dead pimp because they don’t care.
Copilot Search Branding
Dennis Hof, the Nevada brothel owner and reality TV personality, was posthumously elected to the Nevada State Assembly in November 2018 for the 36th district, even though he died just 21 days earlier on October 16, 2018 Wikipedia+1.
Hof, who had been a Republican since 2016, ran against Democratic challenger Lesia Romanov in a heavily Republican district that included parts of Nye County and surrounding rural areas BuzzFeed News. He was known for his flamboyant style, his HBO reality series Cathouse, and his self-proclaimed role as the “Trump of Pahrump”
On the other hand, this is a fine time for this conversation. We do have roughly a year to find a candidate that’s not fucking Newsom just because he could meme for a minute.
I don’t mind a few memes in our politics, but I do want there to be some kind of substance under the memes. And not the substance Magats have found under theirs, 💩.
no. this shit is the reason we’re in this situation, innocent citizens getting rounded up, deported, murdered. because so many people wanted to moralize, “vote their conscience,” “wE dIdNt GeT a PrImArY”…whatthefuckever, while the rest of us were shouting that everyone’s top priority needs to be keeping trump out of the white house.
so again: if it ends up that newsom, or harris, or a fucking lobotomized muskrat ends up being the candidate–VOTE FOR THE FUCKING MUSKRAT instead of trump, or 3rd party, or, ffs sitting out
i will die on this hill. you might too
I mean, I generally agree with you, but like most things this isn’t black and white. It’s a nuanced thing that needs to be handled with care. I get it; Large movements are terrible at nuance.
While we’re two years out from the start of the campaign, we can certainly encourage the Dems to find an actual progressive.
Hillary was better than Newsom. It’s funny that California Dems are blasted as the most liberal, when they might be the most conservative Dems outside of West Virginia.
Yes, anything is better than fascism. That point was more important 18 months ago, and might be more important again 12 months from now.
It’s also important how you say what you have to say. Dems are absolutely not the ones to blame for all this shit. Not doing enough is not the same as directly causing the disaster.
this isn’t black and white
please.
remove fascism vs keep fascism seems pretty “black and white” to me. what the chicken fried fuck are you talking about “nuance” at this point? vote against trump, or do anything else; that’s the choices. ideal? no. reality? yes. you think we should bicker and argue about the “best” person to oppose trump while the fascists are 100% behind whoever the fuck chimpanzee is on the ballot that they’re going to vote for regardless, because they have ® by their name. THAT is how democrats lose
i’m not “blaming dems”, nor did i imply such at any point anywhere, so you can go ahead and eliminate that bullshit from your argument.
good luck with your “find an actual progressive” aka 3rd party with about zero chance of actually winning any election for any office anywhere. i will try to come to terms with the fact that we’re in fascism from now on, because not-fascists just can’t seem to grasp “vote against fascism no matter what”
thanks for your insight. i hope you don’t have kids
“find an actual progressive” aka 3rd party
lol no. You don’t get to strawman and then be a rude piece of shit about it.
people are getting murdered by ice.
and a rando on lemmy is what’s making you mad
nuance
Lol this is so fucking funny. My vote wasn’t a fail.
Yes! Primaries primaries primaries.
Go and primary every single DNC candidate that isn’t good enough, get better democratic candidates wherever you can. Put even more energy into primaries than into the election itself! But when the decision comes down to Churchill or Hitler, you better vote for fucking Churchill.
Everything else is just throwing the minorities and the future under the bus as a cost of doing business.
https://sourcenews.scot/analysis-5-of-the-worst-crimes-of-winston-churchill/
Churchill is probably viewed as worse than Hitler in parts of the world for good reason.
I think a lot of the argument against voting for lesser evil is the acceleration aspect. It’s advocating for a quicker fall of the American empire
Accelerationism is acceptable to people who think they have little to fear from a (hopefully) short spike in terrible things, because they might come out of the other side worse for wear, but they will make it through.
But for everybody who’s part of a vulnerable group it’s throwing them to the wolves, because likely, they will not come out of the other side.
(I want to be clear that I’m not advocating for accelerationism, I’m just seeing holes in the argument) Pushing people in a vulnerable position now to make change for the future is a great example of the needs of the many ethical arguments. Advocating against change because it hurts me in the short term is inherently selfish. I know people that are accelerationists, and The ones I know don’t assume that they’ll come out ahead or even the same. They recognize that the system is inherently broken and they think they need more people uncomfortable to make meaningful change.
Accelerationism is a great idea.
I don’t care how many people die now, because it will bring a glorious time in the future.
Accelerationism is Christianity with Lenin replacing Jesus
Except the Armageddon is real but no-one will rise up to save us when every major city is nothing but glowing embers under an ever gray nuclear sky while the remnants of humanity fight each other with sticks over the last grain silos.
So-called American “revolutionaries” make me sick with their reckless disregard for the unavoidable responsibility their country has with regards to their military. An “accelerated downfall” won’t just affect you bozos. Especially not if the means are “stoking the fire of imperialism”.
If I could press a button to accelerate the US downfall and magically contain the fighting to the lower 48 in a way that leaves whoever is left standing nuke-less, I would, but that’s not an option on the table, so barring that, please vote against the guy who really can’t be trusted with the nuclear briefcase, yeah???
Wanna know how to pressure the DNC to pick a candidate you like? Go fucking vote for them in the primary!
Typically, the primaries get 1/10th the turnout of the general election. That means that a very small number of people can sway the primary. Go stump for your candidate. Make phone calls, talk to your family and friends and community, explain why your candidate is the better choice.
The lack of a primary in 2024 was fucking awful, but guess what? Chances are, there is a primary going on for your state right now, get to work!
Try telling that to someone who supported Bernie, but before you do that you might want to go back and refresh youself on what happened. The DNC is a diseased carcass, change isn’t possible.
In 2016. 2020 it was fair and he lost. I voted for him but supposedly all his other supporters didn’t. That’s democracy. You don’t count if you don’t show up.
Before I consider this complaint, I need you to go back, and get the primary results from the 2016 DNC primary and post them here.
I know what the results are, but I need to know that you know before we discuss further.
The DNC even said that they don’t have to run fair primaries, because they technically don’t. God damn it wakup!
No it’s more like “Why make an argument against the charges when the charges have no standing at all.” The case is dismissable, why would you waste your time and money fighting it in court?
Maybe; I didn’t look into it past probably biased summaries. My cynical sense was on fire
Do you really think the vote results of a corrupt election somehow make that election not corrupt? How are we still having this stupid ass argument in 2026?
I guess Putin really does have 88% support in Russia. That’s what the vote says after all, so it must be true.
Are you saying that Bernie got more votes in the primary than Hillary, and the DNC manipulated the votes to make Hillary win?
No, I’m saying the election itself was corrupted in order to feed the victory to Hillary. Superdelegates, DNC-run smear campaigns, election rigging by limiting debates to reduce the visibility of the outsider. Accusations of sexism simply for not supporting the candidate with a vagina.
Manipulating votes is not the only way to rig an election, you can do a lot just by manipulating the voters themselves. The DNC admitted to this, they didn’t have to run a fair election. So stop pretending the end result of a blatantly corrupt process justifies the process.
Alright, you pretty much posted the same argument I was expecting from the other two, but just taking a little detour through the possibility that you thought the votes were altered.
Before I consider this complaint, I need you to go back, and get the primary results from the 2016 DNC primary and post them here.
I need to know that you know before we can discuss further.
I assume all those “vote third party both side same” people were bots or Russian trolls. Obviously trump was always gonna be way worse
They aren’t. That’s an easy scapegoat. Influenced by Russian propaganda, sure, but we’re all influenced by propaganda. The vast majority are ordinary citizens, who are as convinced of the righteousness of their beliefs as anyone. Dismissing them, en masse, as bots and trolls isn’t helpful.
The fact is, many of them have very valid points. Where they need to be fought is, very specifically, when they encourage non-voting. There’s no good argument for non-voting, and it’s easy to defeat them there.
That’s fair and a much better response than mine above. I’m just a bit disenfranchised from it all, especially the non action and non voting suggestions of many on the left.
But you are right, it’s basically a center right and a far right party, and that super sucks and needs to be complained about a lot.
Yeah…
To the people “wanting to teach the DNC a lesson”, in the nicest way possible, you’re fucking idiots.
They threw literally ever other minority group under the bus, and got absolutely nothing for it - if anything they actually got less than nothing, because Trump wasn’t just going soft on Israel, he was actively cheering them on!
I will never understand the mentality of choosing that hill to die on… Like couldn’t you guys have waited until Trump was at least off the board first.
Man was literally on his way to a lifetime in jail and bankruptcy, that he got out of scot-free because you guys decided 2024 was the time for a protest vote.
We had the chance to get rid of Trump forever and the tankies blew it
Yeah all right, that’s as good a definition as any I suppose. It’s still something about it, though, it’s like this term that means everything and nothing, and lends itself super well to nebulous definition, so no one can really decide what it is whether they are for or against it. It’s messed up.
It’s like, I think just calling things “leftist” is a way dumb oversimplification- much more so than I think that “conservative” is even though that definition is even looser and completely devoid of actual ideology, even by their own admittance.
I don’t know, I just find this whole shitshow tiring, I’m not sure what we’re doing here.
I will never understand the mentality of choosing that hill to die on…
I think it only makes sense if they’re lying about their beliefs and wanted trump to win.
I think for some of them it’s an unwillingness to admit/accept the consequences for their actions.
That might be, but it’s hard to believe many people would not see the result coming ahead of time. It’s just not a believable concept to me that these folks really believed that anything could happen besides trump being more likely to win. The most generous I can be with them is that they didn’t care what would happen.
Theyre not unlike maga voters in that regard and they don’t want to hear it.
When you wrap up your political decisions in your identity it is CRUSHING to admit you’ve been wrong.
I imagine they feel so pure not voting or voting third party or whatever and then the reality of that comes crashing in about February 1 or so.
I could forgive that if they at least don’t make the same mistake twice.
Edit- witness the downvotes for saying this. Just confirmation I suppose.
Elections are in some way a validation of the system. The elites point to the election any time someone complains about some policy. The entire system has been consistently getting worse regardless of who is in power for at least 30+ years. The only way we have to express our displeasure is to vote out the incumbent. I’m confident that even if Kamala had won, things would have gotten worse. Maybe they would be worse at a slower rate, but they would be worse. We need to see beyond electoral politics. Every time you vote, you are granting the rich permission to continue to fuck you regardless of who you voted for.
Every time you vote, you are granting the rich permission to continue to fuck you regardless of who you voted for.
And do you think that, by refraining from voting, you would somehow deny the rich that permission? That’s probably why all the openly corrupt, unapologetically authoritarian politicians go out of their way to ensure everyone is able to cast a ballot, right? Because they know that, the more people vote, the more permission the rich will have to fuck everyone. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your enlightened contribution here.
Hey man there’s other ways to get their dick out of your ass. Lenin, Fidel and Mao figured it out.
Sure. Start the revolution. We’re all waiting for you.
That is… Unless you’re full of shit and won’t be the first one to raise your fist right? Just waiting for everyone else to do the dirty work of the revolution right? Why aren’t you in the papers yet for your revolutionary work?
Give it time bro, we’re all working on something together. Just don’t act like staying the course is the only choice
They literally do think everything that’s happened under Trump would have been the same under Kamala.
They are deeply unserious people who have no ambitions for politics and care only about purity-testing.
They would have been different, but Kamala wouldn’t have been different enough.
Biden won and Trump instigated a coup over it. Why is that treasonous rat not in prison? Would Kamala have put him in prison? Oh, she should have said so. I had no idea.
Its funny how people act as if kamala lost because she supported genocide
No lol, leftists hold miniscule power in electorate, kamala lost because she ran a shitty campaign and neo liberal economics will only make things worse for incumbent.
I voted for Kamala, but I was pissed we didn’t have a fucking primary. If we had a primary, we might have gotten Bernie on the ballot, or Elizabeth Warren, or Butegig, or anyone else. But instead Biden claimed to be running, then dropped out at the last minute so opps no time for primaries. I’m salty as hell that democrats didn’t get a choice. It felt deliberate and coordinated.
Whoopie, the man who promised to be one term ran for another just long enough to ensure no one actually got a say in who to run.
Certainly a mistake from the people who argued in court and won with it that they don’t have to have honest primaries.
neo libs must choose… either there is not enough progressives to demand a progressive candidate so they are not a large enough block to have changed the outcome OR they are large enough bloc to demand progressive cannidate and the democrats ignoring them cost them the election.
and they always pivot talking points
Schrodinger’s Left: small enough for Dems to ignore, large enough to make Dems lose
The enemy is both strong and weak.
It’s almost like they’re fascist lite…
It’s almost like Democrats are 2016 Republicans, which were fascist light…
I’m happy to see more progressives running but as a recent example, Madami, the Dems would have rather he lost than win even if it meant electing Trump. They’re the ones that put themselves in this position, now us.
They spent millions to keep him out, they hate winning if it means the rich lose $100.
There’s a reason actual leftists refer to these losers as “social fascists”
Liberals vastly prefer fascism to actual justice.
And then they get mad when you call it out with documentation, even directly quoting their political idols and their own words about what they support.
They just want the fascism done quietly in blue color than loudly in red.
Kamala lost because it was obvious from the beginning that she was a bad candidate whose only hope of becoming President was to be parachuted into the role via the 25th Amendment once Biden’s mental state truly deteriorated. Unfortunately for her and the DNC, Biden’s condition declined right as a key presidential debate rolled around, and his declining cognitive health became so utterly apparent that not even Reddit’s tyrannical cabal of power mods could cover it up anymore.
Before that debate, even merely suggesting that Biden was senile would have gotten you labelled a Nazi and banned from at least a dozen subreddits.
THAT is why she lost to a convicted felon.
Did you watch the debates between Biden and Trump. Biden was far more articulate and sane than trump, and it still wasn’t enough.
Who said they were going to beat medicare and had an eyeball get bloody on stage?
Both were senile racist bastards, one has always been incoherent, one was more recently incoherent.
Is that Gavage Nuisance in the bottom picture?
Gruesome newsom
Slightly better than fascist is a very low bar, and most of them aren’t clearing it.
The bar is ‘are they itching to exterminate PoC/LGBT+ people’, and Green MAGA decided they want their own bar instead and will throw away those vulnerable minorities to satisfy their own morality cocksucking.
Notice the Leftist in this image is purity-testing and making demands while doing nothing themselves?
Pretty accurate meme!
We are currently 3 years before the next presidential election. This is the time to purity test.
God forbid anyone want clean drinking water.
Harris chose to lose the most winnable election in history because Democrats know they can punish voters for being disloyal simply by allowing Republicans to win. If you demand too much from Democrats they will throw the election. It’s essentially a hostage situation, you must give unconditional support to the Good Cop or the Bad Cop will beat you to death. You don’t want the Bad Cop, do you?
If we don’t abolish this system we’re all going to die.
Only a moron would have looked at the two options we had and not picked Harris.
Was she a good candidate? Actually yes if you look at her Senate voting history. She was closer to Sanders than any other senator. She also, as VP, supported investigating Israel so they could bypass the law requiring us to give support.
Did she run a good campaign? Absolutely not. But, she basically had no time to actually run one. She needed money, fast, so she softened her stance on some things to secure it.
Was it a bad move? Yes. Was it a bad enough move to let Donald “I’m going to be a dictator on day one and you’ll never have to vote again” Trump win? Absolutely not.
Do you think you’re going to be able to reason with someone who literally just said that the Democrats threw the election on purpose because online leftists “demanded too much”?
“Leftists” that were saying this knowingly support trump. They’re accelrrationist who want conditions to get so bad that their ideas actually seem good.
Harris was a good candidate her platform was progressive and pragmatic. There was very very little to complain about with her. Thats why the right and “left” had to work extra hard to undermine her. Look at how hard all the .ml on this site were working pre election to convince people not to vote. It was insane, any post that was positive about biden or Harris of waltz was met with a barrage of insane accusation and misinfo.
But i dont think the left undermining dems was a deciding factor. I think it was rights pro trump narrative that was way to strong. Trump dominated every media space. If you were in male spaces pro trump quips were fucking everywhere you’d be watching a YouTuber who was non political for 10years then suddenly he would say something like “but trumps economy was damn good” or something about biden beinf asleep at the wheel. That stuff influences voters more than political ads and old media celebs.
There was very very little to complain about with her.
- Promising full military support to a settler colony currently committing a genocide using US weapons
- Campaigning with fucking Cheneys and pandering to fascists
- Not promising any actual support for trans people, stopping at “I will follow the law”
- Abandoning universal healthcare push
- Not being actually voted on by anyone, instead just appointed by DNC
- Most importantly: she’s a neolib, and the working class has been suffering materially due to neolib policies for the past 50 years, people want change
There is a shitton to complain about her. If you are knowingly pushing the idea she was a good candidate you’re a genocide enabler.
I would’ve voted for her if I was in the US (because the alternative is slightly worse in many ways). But, moral qualms aside, it’s crazy to just shove a status-quo establishment neoliberal and expect people who are surviving paycheck-to-paycheck due to that very ideology to be excited about it.
Well not voting for her and burning Gaza sure taught them…
Elections are not the time and place for democracy, that’s some tankie shit. If you want to make your voice heard, do it any other time. Not during elections. It’s just not right.
Ahh yes, now is not the time to discuss about school shootings. Let’s wait until things calm down. Then things never calm down and it’s the next one. Oh sorry, I got your argument confused withe another, my bad.
I swear to god, the actual argument is so close I ate the onion at first.
