A coordinated online campaign has reportedly encouraged users to alter fuel station information on digital maps across Russia, creating confusion among drivers.
The activity involves changing station statuses by marking locations with available fuel as empty or showing closed stations as operational.
Supporters of the campaign claim the effort is designed to disrupt travel decisions, increase uncertainty, and create additional pressure around fuel availability.
Much nicer than being shot at, like the Ukrainian and Russian soldiers are forced to. Plus, you get to say things like “the enemy” from the security of your couch! o7
What’s your point here? People who aren’t actively fighting in direct combat shouldn’t discuss the events or participate in any efforts to sabotage the aggressor?
You’re pretending to be doing something while conscripts die for the war you cheerlead, chickenhawk.
You’re more pathetic and disgusting than a plain coward. At least they don’t try and pretend they’re involved
I’m not doing anything. I’m not pretending to do anything. I’m not pretending to be involved at all. I’m not cheerleading this war either. You’re absolutely eviscerating a chickenhawk, blowhard, coward of a strawman.
I’m commenting on an effort to weaken popular support for a war of aggression and how it might be tactically reasonable to also challenge the political will. That’s about the extent of what I can contribute: discuss the affair online in an attempt to get insight into the workings of this war. Civilians need to understand the mechanisms so that they can hold the military accountable.
It’s stupidly shortsighted to pretend that talking about it is worthless. Yes, my comment doesn’t help the troops fighting, bleeding and dying to deny an imperialist aggressor’s claim to their land. But the world, present and future, consists of more than that conflict (hopefully, at least). The lessons learned from that war can be valuable to other conflicts, and it is important that civilians also understand the mechanics of it if they are to hold the military accountable.
It’s also plain ignorant to pretend that war is only fought and won in the trenches. Even long before modern communications, it was understood that the will of the enemy is an objective of war. A victory in the trenches does not guarantee an end to the war nor a lasting peace. Attacks on the
enemy’sopponent’s internal stability (not the people, that doesn’t usually work well) help erode that will to continue supporting the war, and also create conditions whereby an eventual peace can bring a noticeable improvement in quality of life that will make the former enemy’s populace more inclined to accept that peace. Yes, it’s not as immediately dangerous and heroic as direct combat, but it amplifies the value of the sacrifice of those who do fight on the ground.And finally, for many people, direct participation on the frontlines isn’t a possibility. Should those people rather do nothing at all than even try to achieve something? Should they stand aside, watch the conscripts die and say “Look at me, being honest about my complacency”? Would their inaction help the defenders?
Do you genuinely believe that ground combat is the only part of war that matters?
Referring to “the enemy” when you’re not fighting makes your desire to appear as part of the war effort obvious.
Why can’t you go fight in this war that you obviously support? Again, people are literally being forced to. Why isn’t a possibility with you, who unlike many of the people forced feels this war should continue?
Seems, like most of the NAFO folks, you’re eager to tell yourself you’re a brave warrior . . . and willing to fight to the last Ukrainian, and not one step further.
For one, I was speaking from the perspective of people participating. Beyond that, I don’t think it’s a stretch to consider Russia a threat to Europe. What else would you call a hostile power with the stated desire to claim your land for themselves?
Physical and psychological aptitude, for one. I sure wouldn’t trust me with a weapon. Hell, it might be a better way to stick me into the Russian army instead, given the odds of sabotage, whether by accident due to impaired motor control or by snapping under the psychological strain of combat. You’re not wrong to call me a coward; would you want a coward at your side in a fight?
I don’t want it to continue. I don’t want war to happen at all. But I will not demand that another country roll over and submit to an imperial aggressor. Firstly, it’s not my place. Secondly, it rewards the aggressor, which runs counter to my desire to end war. And thirdly, I want Russia’s (or Putin’s) imperial ambitions to be cut short, for the sake of everyone involved: Ukrainians, Russians, Eastern Europe that might be next on the menu, and ultimately my own country and self.
Russia can end this war. They started it. They can drop their demands and claims, return captives and abducted children, and I’m sure Ukraine will be happy to be done with this shit and start rebuilding some form or normalcy. Who knows, maybe diplomatic relations may be established and a productive peace may emerge.
I want this war to end, and I will endorse measures taken to hasten that end, but the onus for that does not lie with the victims.
Nah, I’m not. I’m a nerd. I’m eager to discuss the theoretical frameworks or war, deterrence and international diplomacy. I’m very much eager to avoid any situation where I would have to become a fighter, brave or otherwise. The world should be ruled by diplomats and thinkers, not by fighters.
(As an aside: I hate the identification of “someone who fights” with “someone whose whole identity is war”. A person who fights should do so as an activity, a tempotary occupation born from necessity, then return to a peaceful, civilian life when the fighting is done. A society where a separate warrior caste splits off from the civilian caste risks some form of military tyranny down the line.)
So, in addition to supporting their conscription, you’ve decided to speak for them.
Russia might be, but they’re also the neighbor, and will continue to be there. Unless you can start to address security concerns of both the EU and Russia, your only other choice is going to be the destruction and subjugation of one or the other. Do you intend to send others to fight (since you don’t yourself) to kill hundreds of millions of Russians?
The United States. The same entity that pushed this proxy war, btw.
Trust me, it’s painfully obvious that you have no problem seeing Ukrainians die in the trenches for the small benefit you think will accrue to you.
The fun part of this is going to be the blowback - because the Ukrainians are also well aware of it.
You’re just willing to demand that countries you don’t live in continue to fight and die for the war you won’t.
In which case you should, if you had any shred of integrity, shut the fuck up about deciding to put others into the hell that is a war zone.
Otherwise, take your label of chickenhawk and wear it with the shame it deserves.
I think, they were writing about people mangling the fuel maps.
Otherwise I’m not sure what are you getting at, everyone should shut up about the war because on the front line they have better things to do and not on the front like they have no right to talk, is it?
Let’s call to mind the original comments: you mentioned that the people messing with the maps had plenty of time. I replied “Makes sense to use that time to further disrupt the enemy’s populace and hopefully sabotage domestic support further”. That is a comment on their activities and I really don’t think it’s a far stretch to assume that they view Russia as an enemy.
I’m not sure how to parse this. “If you can’t find a way to end hostilities, you’ll be enemies forever”? You’re aware that there are other options besides total annihilation?
There are plenty of reasons peace would be beneficial for all involved. It would mean an end to throwing conscripts into a meatgrinder of imperial ambition and a sovereign nation’s defiance thereof. It would offer opportunities for exchange of culture, knowledge, goods. It would allow a mutual enrichment of human experience.
So yes, I hope for a solution to those security concerns. Chief of these, right now, is an ambitious megalomaniac trying to seize by force what isn’t his to take. I should hope it doesn’t take hundreds of millions of deaths to stop him.
The United States are also a threat to our sovereignty, true. Not violently, at the moment, but economically, technologically and through plain old political corruption. They’re also an imperial power with plenty of blood on their hands. We can chat about the middle east at length if you’d like, or Venezuela, or Europe. You’ll find me just as ready to condemn them as I am here to condemn Russia.
But in this context, they weren’t the ones annexing Crimea, nor starting a “special operation” that escalated into open war. They didn’t shell Ukrainian cities, abduct children or continue to send soldiers into the meatgrinder.
The US backed Ukraine for entirely self-serving reasons, but they didn’t start this war.
This blood is on Putin’s hands alone.
What benefit? There is nothing to be gained for me in this war.
No. I’m not willing to demand anything of Ukraine. Whether they want to defend their country against a war of aggression is their choice to make.
The only demand I make is that the aggressor cease their aggression.
Put whom where exactly? Ukrainians into Ukraine? Russians into land that doesn’t belong to them?